Dialogue and the Oddities of the English Language

[jannifer]

One of the wonderful things about the English language is its richness. There are so many regional variations -- not just among British, American, Australian English, but within those countries. Some of these expressions are wonderful and could offer something special in dialogue within our fiction. Other things are just interesting little bits.

I've added some new comments with more goodies I remember my grandmother using. Yay!

UPDATED QUESTION: Could some kind speaker of UK English explain the meaning of the phrase "no better than she should be"? I have the basic idea, but some clarification would be helpful.



In the conversation following the release of Chapters 51 and 52 of VLSV, ScaryLady and Lenna mentioned a few of these phrases in regards to having a fight or throwing a fit (as we might say in the States).

From ScaryLady -- "Caerwyn throwing an almighty paddy at the uncaring archdemon made this chapter for me.

'Oi, AD, quarter to four, school gates. I'm 'aving yer out.'"

In a later post -- "having a strop? throwing a wobbler? losing his rag?"

From Lenna -- "Duking it out. Scrapping. Busting someone's ass. Giving a knuckle sandwich. Opening a can of whoopass. Er, uh... Kicking the shit out of someone?"

Now, because this post and its attendant comments have the potential to wander waaaaaaaaayyy off the DA topic of this community, I've written a post over on my journal which offers up a few of the turns of phrase I've heard here in my little corner of heaven. I'd like for you to stop by and add your various regional expressions, turns of phrase, metaphors and slang. I'm sure that some of these expressions will be useful in dialogue and some won't be. All of them will be great fun!

Please, join the discussion! You may comment here or at http://jannifer.dreamwidth.org/2172.html

Comments

[twist_shimmy]

Aww, you coulda done this over here. Elves talk American and humans speak Brit! It's totally justifiable. :)

[jannifer]

Thank you! I thought it best to err on the side of caution, but there's certainly nothing to stop folks from posting here if they don't want to be bothered with leaving the community to post in my journal.

And the dwarves sound a bit Scottish to me -- Highlanders, that is. They don't have the brogue of the Lowlanders. :)

[nahtanha]

If only some race or ethnic group on Thedas would suit a really strong strine. I would pay good money to watch people trying to decipher an impenetrable Queenslander or Tassie accent.

Besides calling cask wine goon, I can't think of anything that Steve Irwin and Crocodile Dundee haven't already popularised.

[valiasedai]

I would pay good money to watch people trying to decipher an impenetrable Queenslander or Tassie accent.

First: This would be absolutely amazing. I will contribute to this cause!

Second: I don't think it even needs to be that strong. Husband is an Aussie, but was born and lived in Britain for the first 8 years of his life, and has lived in the states for 3.5. People STILL can't understand him some of the time, and his accent has never been very strong (he's a Melbournian). I think it took my family the better part of a year or so to understand him most of the time. And hell, there are still things I don't quite pick up on once a week. It's the way he drops or adds in r's! And the fact he sometimes says nonsense just to mess with me doesn't help much either. XD

[jannifer]

Go ahead and throw some things out. Not everyone is familiar with Steve Irwin or Dundee, and the point of this post is to get these things down where folks can find them. :)

[lenna_nightrunner]

Great job! I agree with Shimmy; this is more than relevant enough to have all of it posted here, but either way it's great. Thanks for the contribution, and for checking in beforehand :)

[lenna_nightrunner]

Let's see, language things! These aren't really relevant to DA at all (although it'd be funny if they were), but I grew up in Hawaii, where not only is there slang, but also a form of pidgin English and a general dialect that falls somewhere in between pidgin and "proper" English.

Even in relatively professional settings and in official forums, Hawaiian words are often peppered in. This makes teaching English in schools an absolute nightmare, and can make it really difficult for people from Hawaii (I can't call them "Hawaiians" because that refers only to Native Hawaiians) to fit in when they move to "the Mainland." This major disconnect between Hawaii and mainland US language and culture is one of the major reasons why Hawaii clubs, etc, are so prevalent at colleges.

Some examples:

"You like" is short for "Would you like to" or "Do you want to" and is often accompanied by ommitting other words, i.e.: "You like go?" means "Would you like to go to [place]?" The [place] is usually left undefined; you have to figure it out from context. That's always fun. If you want to decline, you say "I no can," "No can," or "I cannot," with the emphasis in "cannot" being on "not."

"Da kine" means "that kind" or "something like that." It can also be an equivalent of "whatchamacallit," though I've also heard "whatchamacall" used in places between pidgin and slang. What it referrs to is also pretty much entirely dependent on context.

Fun sample dialog:

Q: "You like cruz?"
A: "Shoots den, cuz, we go."
A: "Sorry bra I no can. I got da kine."

Q: "You wanna go cruising?"
A: "Yeah, let's go."
A: "Sorry, I can't. I have [something]/have to do [somethingj]."

cruz=cruise (as in, to go cruise the highways or hang out, etc)
shoots den=an emphatic way of saying okay
cuz=cousin/friend
bra=brother/friend (usually male--female would be "sista")

Insanity! I could go on and on. That's what happens in a cultural and linguistic Melting Pot.

[scarylady]

If you say cuz in my neck of the woods it means because. Separated by a common language isn't a lie.

[twist_shimmy]

Dude, and let's not forget the slipper/thong/flip-flop fiasco.

Where I grew up, the sandals with a strap between the big and second toe were called thongs, and the backless underwear was a g-string.

In Hawaii, thongs are slippers, but where we moved to in the west, slippers = houseshoes.

But if you call the shoe a flip-flop everyone knows what you mean. But it takes long and sounds awkward and gah. I miss living in a region where I could call them thongs and everyone knew what I meant and didn't think about my panties.

[jannifer]

I'll add here that it's not uncommon in the American South to hear someone refer to a sibling by relationship, particularly if there's only one. I have a friend who has a set of twins -- one boy and one girl -- and it's not unusual to hear them refer to each other as "Brother" and "Sister" or "Sis." This can sometimes follow someone down a generation so that you end up with "Aunt Sister" or "Uncle Brother." My paternal grandmother's brother was called Brother even by his nieces and nephews.

[jannifer]

Some of this talk about accents got me to remembering some things my father used to say. He was from northwest Georgia (US, not Russia) and had a very distinctive way of saying certain words. His sister's name was pronounced "MAH-thah", not "MAR-thuh" and that place where college students live was a "DAH-mi-tory". His middle name was pronounced almost as if it were spelled "Harris" being pronounced as "HAH-rus" rather than "HOR-us". It isn't polite to tease people, so you play with them. And Daddy is almost pronounced as "DID-ee" by some folks. It's a very subtle shift in the way the a is pronounced.

[lenna_nightrunner]

I remember that the "A" sounds were the number one pronunciation thing Brits teased us about when I was in London. Our Shakespeare teacher got no end of pleasure saying the name Callie with that nasal "A" sound we use for a lot of our "A"s (i.e. ours sound a lot like "ack" As rather than "aha" As). If that makes sense.

[jannifer]

How familiar are most of us with the phrase "pitch a fit" meaning to react strongly and badly to something? "If I miss curfew again, Daddy will pitch a fit." In some areas of my state, that's emphasized by adding "and fall in it." "When her daughter actually married that actor, Marilyn pitched a fit and fell in it."

Another little phrase I've remembered is saying you'll carry someone when you mean you'll give them a ride. "I'll carry you to the store later today." In my youth, we used the phrase "got together" to talk about the very beginnings of a romantic relationship as in, "We got together at the dance last night."

[scarylady]

No pitching of fits here. 'Throw a wobbler' 'Have conniptions' 'Do his fruit' or 'Do his nut' 'Kick off' (eg. He'd kick off big time)

We don't even say give you a ride, we say give you a lift, which is perhaps related to your 'carry'

A rather common ( in both senses of the word) one for picking someone up (sexually or romantically): trapped off.

God, I hate that phrase.

[lenna_nightrunner]

Where I've lived it's just "throw a fit" instead. Which makes sense.

[scarylady]

Oh, one of the big ones for slang, and I suspect they are different everywhere in the world.

Truancy!

Up here you wagged off school. eg. "Where were you yesterday? "I were waggin' it."

[twist_shimmy]

We either skip school or cut class. Apparently Americans adore alliteration.

[twist_shimmy]

So here's one I only heard growing up in the south. (Took me years to lose the accent. DX)

"Hacks me off." As in "Oh my gosh, Ashley just hacks me off. The new tax hacks me off." It appears to be an alternative to "pisses me off," since good Southern Belles don't piss. (We tinkle!)

When I moved to Hawaii and used that once, my friends thought I was hurt. D:

[scarylady]

*raises hand* we get hacked off too!

[jannifer]

Nor do we sweat, we glow. And the true mark of a Southern belle? We can tell you off six ways to Sunday and do so politely.

[aithne]

One of my partners is South African. My car's name is Regina, which is pronounced in his accent to rhyme with "vagina". (And much hilarity ensues.) The trunk of a car is the boot, of course, and a stoplight is a "robot". A long stoplight is a "picnic robot". How far away something "over there" is indicated by a lengthening of a vowel--so something a ways away is "over theeeeeeeeeere."

In Newfoundland, instead of "how are you doing?" it's "What're you at?".

I have a marked Northern Californian/Pacific Northwest accent. (As marked as they get, anyway.) Everyone is "Dude" or "Duder", I don't have the open o so "cot" and "caught" sound exactly alike, and "painting" is pronounced "pinting". I don't get the car emissions tested, I get it smogged. I sometimes go to a potlatch (sort of like a potluck).

And I can drop into Valley Girl on the *slightest* pretext. Like, I grew up Valley, you know?

[nightsfury]

I lived in northern California (little town called Fortuna, about 100 miles south of the Oregan border) for about a year, a long time ago. I remember listening to a garden/home show on the radio and couldn't quite make out what the host was talking about, he kept talking about the 'ruff/rough'. I finally figured out he meant 'roof'. Also, he tended to drop the 'g' off 'ing' words. Can't remember if he was a local or not, but I do remember his accent.

[scarylady]

May I set us off on a new and (hopefully) fruitful direction?

Hand gestures.

How many bits of the world stick two fingers up to say sod off (or any other variant thereof)?

Do any of the rest of your bits of civilisation waggle a loose fist to say someone is a wanker, or that the conversation is wank?

Do you hold up a hand palm out to thank a driver who is giving way to you?

[nightsfury]

I've seen people use the 'one finger salute' (usually the middle one) for the first. Haven't seen the second here in the heartland of the US. And while people hold up a hand for ty, the palm may or may not be palm out.

[scarylady]

Let us meander into murky territory:

Bread products.

Muffins/teacakes/rolls/baps/buns

The difference between a muffin and a teacake here is minimal... although a teacake can have fruit in it and be for toasting. A roll is crusty and eaten with soup, imo. Bap is a silly word, nuff said. A bun is a cake... what other parts of the world call a fairycake I think. Hot cross buns are the exception - they are a teacake with a cross on them.

I've confused myself now.

My husband, watching me type this, merely wants to know why most bread products have sexual connotations...

[jannifer]

I think of any single serving bread product as a roll if it uses yeast and a biscuit if it uses shortening and baking powder.

Sten's favorite sweet is a cookie rather than a biscuit. And a muffin is a quick bread made with batter (using baking powder as the leavening agent) and intended to be eaten with butter if it isn't sweet and as a breakfast or snack food if it is.

Cupcakes are simply cake batter poured into muffin tins to make individual servings, much like English fairy cakes. However, it is my understanding that at one point they were actually baked in teacups.

And those things made from batter that are fried on a griddle or in a skillet are what I call "pancakes."

As a Southernism, there is a johnny cake, which is simply biscuit dough shaped into a small, round loaf and baked that way rather than being rolled out and the biscuits cut individually.

[jannifer]

It's amazing the things that keep drifting back to me in the course of reading all the various comments in here. For example, my grandmother used the expression "right smart" to mean "a fair bit". "It took right smart effort to get those stains out of the carpet." It can also be used to signify the need to hurry. "You'd best get on with your homework and be right smart about it." And she would sometimes use the word "commence" to mean "begin." "I replaced the handle on the old hoe and commenced to dig." Another thing I've heard from her, (and I do believe this goes back to that Elizabethan English thing I mentioned earlier) is using the word "join" to mean sewing together the pieces of a garment. "I can cut out using a pattern, but I'm not very good at joining." Oh, and if you got angry with someone, you might "rare up" at them. I believe this is a very early form of the phrase "rear up".

[lina]

I love these sort of posts. :)

"Commence" can and does mean "begin" in many dialects.

"Join" is the common terminology for sewing together pieces of garment in other forms of stitchery (knitting, crochet, etc).

"Rare up" could also be a pronunciation specific to her dialect.

</linguist just now seeing this thread>