Math is Hard! (age question)

[darkrose]

How old is Loghain at the beginning of Origins? How old was Maric when he disappeared? (I know DG has confirmed that he's dead, but for fic-writing purposes, as far as I'm concerned he's only comic-book dead.)

The inconsistency of dating between novels and game makes my poor little non-mathematically-inclined brain hurt.

Comments

[darkrose]

I have no problem assuming that Cailan was catting around. I just don't see it with Maric, and especially not if it means cheating on Rowan. Aside from everything else, Loghain would kick his ass.

[sarahsponda]

I wonder if that's one of the reasons Loghain dislikes Alistair so much, though.

[darkrose]

It certainly seems like that was the direction they were going before Alistair got retconned. For my personal canon, though, I've decided that Loghain isn't stupid, and that he can do math. Alistair is the right age to have been conceived during Maric's trip to the Deep Roads with the Wardens. There was a pretty elf on that trip. Maric has an elf fetish (and apparently, a Deep Roads sex kink). This leads to the logical conclusion that Maric had a bastard with an Orlesian elf Grey Warden mage. I'm not sure it would be possible for Fiona to have more strikes against her in Loghain's mind.

[niniane]

Yeah, but you have the issue then of Goldanna, how he ends up with Eamon, Loghain lying...

There's just so much confusion. Probably because "The Calling" tried to retcon Alistair's entire past. But his past does sort of make sense. A king + a servant = a royal bastard. And it's not hard to see both Loghain and Eamon being resentful of Alistair because of what his mere existence represents as far as Rowan goes.

I'm also always a bit curious about the Loghain + Rowan thing. I mean, as much as it's supposed to be "tragic romance", if Anora is supposed to be "nearly 30" by Ostgar, he didn't spend much time pining for her.

I mean, you figure that even if "nearly 30" = 28, then Loghain goes on his journey back to find Alis (let's say a few months there), finds some woman, and gets her knocked up within...like, a year? I'll admit that this 1) probably wasn't very well thought out, and 2) probably implies that Anora wasn't 100% intended. But it's still hard to see someone mourning his great tragic romance, and getting another woman pregnant in <2 years.

[elysium_fic]

Last I knew, mourning didn't render one impotent. Lots of people fuck to alleviate their depression.

[niniane]

Well, it doesn't. But it's hard to see someone going into some kind of impossibly long and sad "OMG, my life is over, Rowan is the love of my life!" then marrying someone else <2 years later. Obviously, your interpretation may be different.

Similarly, being married to someone doesn't keep you from fucking someone else. *shrugs* Or engaged. At the very least, we know Maric certainly didn't think much of his engagement to Rowan. Admittedly, as soon as he got married, it is possible that he was suddenly "Now I am the most faithful husband ever!" But it seems quite plausible that he was not.

[elysium_fic]

But it's hard to see someone going into some kind of impossibly long and sad "OMG, my life is over, Rowan is the love of my life!" then marrying someone else <2 years later.

Not really. It's made pretty apparent in both the game and the books that marriage is more an act of duty than anything to do with romance.

The fact that he's in love with Rowan does not in any way negate the fact that he's suddenly got a responsibility to establish a dynasty and needs a wife to help manage the teynir he suddenly finds himself saddled with.

Love really has nothing to do with it. He needs to marry and produce heirs. It's his duty.

[darkrose]

Yeah, but you have the issue then of Goldanna, how he ends up with Eamon, Loghain lying...

We know that the game has a lot of inconsistencies, many of them due to Alistair undergoing a complete personality and change during the development of the game. Given the number of actual, game-breaking bugs Bioware lets through QA, the fact that they didn't do a complete rewrite on the dialogue for an optional party member you only have for the tail end of the game shouldn't be surprising.

We also know that all of the characters in the game are unreliable narrators. Alistair know about Goldanna because someone told him. Do you really think that Eamon wouldn't lie to him?

But it's still hard to see someone mourning his great tragic romance, and getting another woman pregnant in <2 years.

*shrugs* He had a duty to produce an heir for the terynir--and if you can't be with the one(s) you love....What's much more telling to me is that he avoided court until Rowan died, at which point you'd need a crowbar to pry him out of Denerim.

Besides, I'm convinced that Loghain's attraction to Rowan was partially transference, since he couldn't have Maric.

[niniane]

Oh, yeah. I agree that it's all buggy. But there's nothing that says elf-baby = Alistair. And Alistair does seem to have a reasonably convincing backstory that is confirmed by multiple people. So while it could be him, you eliminate a lot of holes by figuring that elf-baby is still at large.

And, honestly, if it's game vs. "The Calling", I'm calling the game canon long before "The Calling".

I agree that Loghain probably married in part as it was his duty. But Anora was engaged to Cailan since he was born...so she's really not filling in as his heir. And he never has a second kid (despite that his wife's obviously been dead for a while if she died when "Anora was a child"). I mean, I can totally see him flinging himself at some woman out of grief...or whatever. But we also get cute stories about him delivering his wife rose bushes, he married a commoner, etc. It's kind of hard for me to see him being so hung up on Rowan that he would kill his BFF for cheating on her. (Which seems a bit extreme even if he was still in love with Rowan.

Besides, as you said:

Besides, I'm convinced that Loghain's attraction to Rowan was partially transference, since he couldn't have Maric.

Anora looks creepily like the Theirins, and is supposed to look just like her Mom. I'm sort of convinced that somewhere in the back of Loghain's mind was "OMG, you look just like Maric! Marry me and have my children!" Hopefully Celia never learned. Can you imagine what it would be like to find that out about your husband?

[aithne]

Hopefully Celia never learned. Can you imagine what it would be like to find that out about your husband?

...a story partially about which I am writing right now.

(This is crack. I know it's crack. And yet, I cannot stop writing. :)

[elysium_fic]

Considering I went there earlier this week myself, I totally understand.

[niniane]

Am I evil for really, really wanting to read this? ^_^

[aithne]

Possibly. :) Should be finished by Christmas.

(Everyone is making such terrible decisions in this one. Such very, very terrible decisions.)

[niniane]

That is usually what makes fiction entertaining, though. No one wants to read about logical, sensible people. We want to feel good by comparison!

[sakuratea]

Well, it was kinda retconned, but certainly Goldanna's codex in Darkspawn Chronicles was written to indicate she wasn't really his sister...

[niniane]

yeah, sort of. I'm willing to go for either origin. But to me, if it's between four characters in game being part of THE GRAND CONSPIRACY or the elf-baby being someone else, I'm going for the second.

...plus, it's never confirmed that elf-baby = Alistair. And if Alistair is only 19, then I feel REALLY awful making him King, you know? Like, a 24 year old...OK, fine. Maybe I'd trust him to rule the kingdom. But I'd feel mighty uncomfortable being all like "Now you get to rebuild the land!" to a teenager.

[darkrose]

...a teenager who's spent the past year and a half being hunted as a traitor, who's done the whole facing death thing more times than he can count, and who's actually got more experience as a fighter than his father, who was crowned king of a recently-liberated country at what, 21?

There are reasons to not want Alistair as king, but IMO, his age is about the least relevant, in context.

[scarylady]

Yupyup.