The Bannorn?

[darkrose]

Is it a singular noun, referring to the area on the map, or is it a collective term for the nobles with the title of bann? More specifically, if Alistair is drafting a letter that will be copied to the banns of that area, would he tell Eamon that he's writing "to the Bannorn"?

Comments

[ashstoner_021]

See I always thought it was an actual area of the map. I think I have that thought because of the Human Noble Origin, where Nan is yammering about 'going to cook at some nice estate in the Bannorn'. I'm interested to know the outcome of this though, as it's always kinda scratched at the back of my brain whenever I hear it.

[varelishawt]

He could tell Eamon he's writing to all the banns... My own thought is that the Bannorn is an area on the map, and also refers to a bann's seat, i.e., the bannorn of Rainesfere.

[elysium_fic]

When getting rumors from Bodhan/innkeepers, he talks about Loghain "arresting one of the bannorn."

So:

a bannorn = the holdings of a bann

The Bannorn = a region in central Ferelden made up of a bunch of bannorn.

the bannorn = bann, plural.

[scarylady]

Yeah, this is horrendously complex and unclear.

I agree with the first two of Elysium's descriptions, but not the third.

I think the plural of bann is banns.

The Bannorn (capitalised) is marked on the map as a region. You'll notice that there are no Arl's or Teryn's estates in there, and I think this is the crux of why it's called the Bannorn. This is the area where the power of the higher nobles is drawn from. A Bann chooses his lord, and can change it if he's offered a better deal. The flunctuating allegiances of the Bannorn define which Arls and Teryns hold most power (votes) in the Landsmeet, and the tithes they receive from the Bannorn give them monetary power.

There are other Banns further out, to north, south, east and west, but these have less choices of which lord to follow. It would not be beneficial to them to swear allegience to a lord too far away to help and protect them.

Regarding a letter: if it's to all Banns, not just the Banns of the map region called the Bannorn, then no, I do not believe he would use that term.

I hope this makes sense and helps.

[elysium_fic]

I agree with the first two of Elysium's descriptions, but not the third.


What do you think Bodhan/the innkeeper are referring to, then, when he says "one of the bannorn" or something similar? He actually uses it in that manner a number of times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7QEfP3_dXI ("a plea to the bannorn")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT57C2hLhCY ("Several of the bannorn")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK5CseGFWvs ("the bannorn and Loghain")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePmZkuu1x6g ("one of the bannorn")

[scarylady]

I know. I'm also pretty certain that they use banns quite a bit, too, although I'm not in a position to offer proof.

OK, think about this. In Awakenings, what does Varel use when he's referring to the Amaranthine banns? I don't know the answer btw, but it might throw some additional light on things.

If the Amaranthine nobility, who swear to the Arl (and I know some of them are minor lords and only some of them are banns) are not referred to as the bannorn, then it might be where I've picked up this view from.

[elysium_fic]

I couldn't begin to answer that question. I rushed through Awakening without paying much attention. Then RCD started eating my brain and I never had a chance to go back and do it properly.

Someday.

[scarylady]

Hopefully, a more knowledgeable person will happen along and share info with us.

[varelishawt]

I believe he just refers to them collectively as 'the nobles', the 'lords and ladies'. I always got the feeling he wasn't too impressed by them. XD

[darkrose]

IIRC, the only bann in Awakening is Esmerelle, bann of Amaranthine City. All of the other nobles we see are referred to as "lord" or "lady".

I thought I posted this....grrr

[darkrose]

Thank you!

The actual situation is that Alistair is writing to the banns of the Bannorn, to inform them that he's going to be stopping by for a visit, if that clarifies things at all.

[zute]

Perhaps one of the bannorn is one of the banns from the Bannorn region? Or perhaps bannorn with a lower case b is the collective, and upper case B is the region.

Is Bann Esmerelde one of the bannorn? She's not of the region, so maybe not.

[zute]

The wiki says Bannorn is the region and bannorn is the holdings of a bann.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Bannorn

[darkrose]

This is one of those cases where the wiki isn't clear, though, because the usage in the game is ambiguous.