This is not the apostate you're looking for

[darkrose]

You should not be able to play a PC mage in DA2.



Don't get me wrong: I love my mage Hawke. I'm actually enjoying the game far more than I expected and connecting with the character who's trying to navigate a middle course between two completely polarized positions. And with mages being so insanely overpowered in this game, I can just go all out and nuke the hell out of everything.

But as far as gameplay goes, being a mage in Kirkwall requires more suspension of disbelief than I can muster, starting from the moment we land, when I help the captain against the Ferelden deserters trying to enter the city....by tossing fireballs around.

Please note that you're in the Gallows courtyard. There should be templars coming to drag you off as soon as the fight's over. But apparently, no one notices or cares, because you're able to enter the city. At least with the smugglers, Athenril says that she's going to pay the right people to look the other way, so okay, you get a pass your first year. Though one would think you'd be a little more discreet and not run around in robes, carrying a big honking staff. With a skull on top, thank you DLC.

Discretion goes straight out the window while you're trying to get the cash for the expedition and you're using magic in broad daylight. My favorite moment was in the "Wayward Son" quest, when you have the option to tell Vincenzo that you won't turn Feynriel in to the templare. How do you make this point? By casting a lovely little blue fireball, to which he responds, "You're a mage!" No shit, really? Maybe you'd like to say that a little louder; I don't think everyone in Lowtown heard you. Of course, maybe stupid runs in the family, because if you end up fighting the slavers holding Feynriel, he stands there while you're shooting lightning at fools and once again, doesn't realize you're a mage until you say it.

Oh, and I'm hanging around with Anders, because he's my only healer. That's real subtle!

In "Enemies Among Us," I had a truly LOL moment when I ask the three templars I'm chatting with why they're not supposed to talk to me. One of them says, "You're obviously not a templar, serah." NO SHIT, REALLY? What clued you in?

Later in that quest, I'm casting spells in front of Cullen the Formerly Crazy...and he doesn't say anything. No one says a word when I free what's-his-name the templar recruit, once again using magic. Now, he wasn't exactly in a position to notice anything during the fight, but surely, when Anders sends an energy bolt into his chest, he might think, "Whoa, dude!" But okay, maybe he's going to keep his mouth shut because I'm helping him....

...and then we get to what may be the most ludicrious immersion fail I had in Act 1. Rescued Recruit is talking about how the mages "see us as ants to be crushed". I say, "Not all mages are like that," and "Mages are humans, and elves, just like anyone else." Cullen replies, "Mages aren't like you and I."

WHAT?

Mages are exactly like me because I'm a fucking mage! Is it the dress, or the staff, or the fact that I'm radiating magical energy that a fucking templar should be able to feel--which part of "apostate" are you completely missing? That conversation simply should not play out that way.

Fenris, at least, comments on it, though when he says, "I should have realized sooner what you really were," I want the option to say, "Yeah, not real bright, are you?" And...it's actually kind of sweet when you go to the Gallows with him and he asks if it's a good idea for you to be there. Only it's completely undermined by the fact that by that point, it's established that you could walk into the Chantry, cast Tempest and walk out and no one would come arrest you.

It's not until "Act of Mercy" that someone calls you on your bullshit, but by that point, it's kind of ridiculous. Grace threatens to turn me in as an apostate, and I'm all, "Right, because no one's figured it out yet." Well, apparently they haven't, because I can lie my ass off to the templars outside and not only do they believe me, the guy who's not Thrask bows and thanks me for helping!

Even the qunari don't seem to notice that you're a mage unless you tell them. It's great that the arishok respects me, but...I thought I was sarebaas?

At the end of Act 1, if you don't take your asshole brother into the Deep Roads because you don't want to listen to him whine, you get back to find out that he's become a templar. But don't worry, he won't turn you in. Apparently, your Jedi mind-trick is still intact, because Carver's able to become a full knight despite his brother being the most famous--and most obvious--apostate in the city.

I get that for gameplay purposes, it's hard to pull off not being able to do magic publically, although Bioware did it just fine in Baldur's Gate 2. However, if you're going to set up this world where mages are heavily restricted, then either you script every magic-related encounter to have different outcomes for mages--or you don't allow players to choose mage as a class for the protagonist.

Comments

[hoarmurath]

You make very good points. By Act 3 it seems to me Meredith won't even try to apprehend you, because you're so popular, but before that it's indeed ridiculous.

At least it will make for interesting fanfic when one has to consider this all the time.

[twist_shimmy]

There are references to Varric and Aveline constantly paying people off and encouraging them to look the other way about you or Bethany, but I agree that the Templars should be able to feel you. Especially if you do what I do and run around with Anders AND Merrill in your party.

It would be nice to see some robe mods for the PC that look more like normal clothing. And maybe daggers meant for magic users so those who want to RP can blend in a little better until the lightning starts to fly.

[darkrose]

Yeah, I can believe that some bribes have been paid, but for the templars to not respond in conversations with you is weird.

It would be nice to see some robe mods for the PC that look more like normal clothing

That's the one sort of saving grace I've found: there are in-game robes that look like normal clothes. My Hawke likes those because the sleeveless ones show off his incredibly arms.

Of course, I had to use the console to add one of the best sets of non-dress robes in the game, because I always kill demon!Sophia so I can gack her sweet armor.

[elysium_fic]

I always get Avernus' robe and Sophia's armor, because I kill them both.

[scarylady]

Yes, the fact that Templars apparently lost the ability to sense magic troubled me, too. Back in Lothering Ser Bryant made it clear he could tell when the Warden was a mage, so Templar magic-sensing is canon, not fanon (although I know some of us have built it up further).

[scarylady]

Yeah, Cullen. On my list of things-that-got-my-goat was Cullen and his 'well, Ser Keran if you've been exposed to demons then we'll have to put you under close scrutiny for ten years before you can become a full Templar. And that's my kind and generous offer.'

Orly? Cos, Greagoir did that to you right? Yeah, yeah, I remember it well.

I had a very hard time squashing my inner Warden in that convo, who was screaming 'you fucking hypocrite, Cullen!' in my ear.

[darkrose]

Not to mention that you've just said, "We tested him; he's clean." He even comments that he doesn't really want to know what that involved, but then well, he'll take your word for it mostly.

[scarylady]

Ah, I didn't have Anders with me for this run, so I hadn't tested him. But even so... talk about hypocritical; Cullen was subject to the whims of demons for ages

[zute]

I always figured they could sense you using magic, but not sniff it on you like a dog sniffing at your crotch. :p Otherwise, they'd be hauling off kids before they cast their first trauma laden fireball at the local bully.

But yeah, it is a little weird that no one reacts to your public displays of magic in DA2.

[scarylady]

And now I have visions of Templars sniffing everyone's crotch...

[bellaknoti]

ROFL win forever

[twist_shimmy]

Excellent! I haven't played a mage PC yet, so this will be good to remember. :D

[twist_shimmy]

The DAO Surana robes always reminded me of History of the World Part One. "Ladies, put on your no entry signs!" By the sound of it, the DA2 one are no better. XD

[twist_shimmy]

I live to serve. :3

[darkrose]

Yeah, my Hawke is kind of vain, and he was all, "Honey, there's a reason I'm not in the Circle, okay? I am not going to be seen in public in those."

[darkrose]

If you either have the console enabled, or if you didn't kill Demon Sophia Dryden in Warden's Keep, you can get a really nice set called the Robes of Hidden Pockets. They look like your act 2 smoking jacket/pj bottoms set, only in light blue and without the family crest on the back.

[elysium_fic]

I never knew that. Hmph.

[withoutportals]

After the end of Act 2, as far as I can tell, since you saved all the nobility, no one's going to try anything against you, and you basically get a free pass (for a while, in any case). But before that? Not too convinced, particularly in Act 1. By Act 2 I imagine Varric's had plenty of time to bribe people, but even so...

[aithne]

Gameplay and story segregation strikes again. :) (I personally like the fact that you can occasionally loot a mage staff off of a Templar.)

I assume that if DA2 were a book, the POV character would be doing a lot more to hide who and what they are. And I'm a great suspender of disbelief, but when someone is walking around the Gallows with a staff with a FREAKING SKULL stuck to the end and the Templars are like, "hunh, you're a little eccentric, aren't you?".

In my head, mage!Hawke's superpower is a giant Somebody Else's Problem field that is always on. It's the only thing that explains it.

[(Anonymous)]

ARGH, hi Scary's hubby here

this drove me totally mad, and has very nearly ruined the entire game for me. It is so obvious that Bioware has written the story sat around a table and then said "oo that means no one can play mages, but then we won't sell as many games so, bugger it, we shall just totally ignore that and shoehorn them back in.

Absolutely nothing has been done anywhere at all to consider this problem it has just been totally ignored like it is not happening. The above list are the worst offences for sure but there are dozens and dozens of occasions of god awful writing in this story and it regularly grates.

For me it all felt very narrow though. The story lines having three options to choose from all seemed to result in you trapsing back to the wild coast to fight shades again, because it makes no difference whatsoever what you choose, you are bloody well doing our story.

Where is the variation? Where are the options, how do you screw up? or upset people, or save people? I honestly felt like I was being channeled down a single story line with little or no options. Hardly the great sequel to original game with infinite options and massive variations.

The gameplay is fantastic in this version but honestly I am very disappointed in the story.