peopleofthedas | Rule 17 Writing Question

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Rule 17 Writing Question

Since I'm always curious about other people's creative process and how they write, I thought I'd ask the other fic writers on this community how much editing and trimming do you do to your work? Do you edit and trim at all? Write a first draft and then are finished? How much of your stuff ends up on the figurative cutting room floor? I'm wondering if other writers love to edit and pick at stuff the way I do or if they have an entirely different way of writing.

I know that for me, I'm a huge fan of Strunk & White's Rule 17 (Omit needless words) and that most of the time, I tend to do as much work editing, trimming and cutting my fics as I do on the actual first draft. And I've definitely had stories where my betas (or myself) have chopped huge parts out and trimmed the dialogue, etc... to pick up the pacing and the rhythm of the fic, and always my stories seem better for it.

So tell me your creative process because I'd love to know!

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In general, I probably spend as much time to twice as much time editing as writing. It's not unusual for me to hack off half of what I write as a rough draft. That said, it's pretty variable. Some stories get very little editing, as they just worked, while others are completely rewritten 4-5 times. There's no hard and fast rule for me. So while my average is probably 2 times as much time spent editing/rewriting as writing, and writing about twice as much as I need, I've definitely had stories on either end.

That said, my first drafts are crazy rough. Like, I just type as fast as I can to get the ideas out. Which means that they are awful, terrible things that I would let no one read in a million years. So it doesn't necessarily take that long to generate them. Beyond that, a lot of time the ideas I had change in the writing of them, so once I'm done, it's nice to sit back and go "what themes go through this entire story?" and change what I've written to reflect that/add tension/etc.

I wish I could bang out a first draft and let stuff flow and then go back and revise. I seem incapable of it though. I've never been able to really turn off the internal editor enough to do this, although I am jealous of those who can. It's like I lurch forward for a page or so and then have to go back and mess with stuff, lurch forward another two pages, go back and pick at all three... etc... I think this is probably why I'm on the slower end of writers.

It's actually hard for me to tell how much I cut, because most of the time I'm doing it as I go along, but I'm guessing that it's probably a good 30% of what I write before I even get to the end of the first draft. After that it just depends. Like the one time I sent a fic to one of my betas and she cut out huge chunks of the dialogue - but she was totally right in that instance and the fic was so much better without all of that extra junk.

Yeah, usually if you're debating "do I need this? Is it boring?" you don't, and it is. *sigh*

I seem to be kind of unusual in being able to just bang stuff out. That said, some of it is so godawful that it's basically unworkable. You know, not just bad, but painful. So I'm not sure that it's really a good thing.

It's like, it's good in that it's kind of a way of brainstorming. But bad in that sometimes attachment to what I've written keeps me from going "this is crap, the idea is horrible, and I need to delete it". And that while some of the time insisting on just going and writing crap gets me to good stuff, some of the time, I just waste hours writing stuff that can't be published, and never really get back on the right track.

I suppose that this is what a good beta is for. ;)

I've been very lucky with my betas. It's great to be able to hand over a fic that you know has a major problem and have them be like "Dude, NO" or "Fix this, dumbass." Except nicer, lol. And then the lightbulb goes on and you feel relieved because someone can see the problem and fix it.

Years ago when I was first starting out writing fanfiction for other fandoms, I made a pair of friends who were not only fantastic writers in their own right, but were also professional editors in real life. They really, really helped me get a feel for what was important to cut by taking a red pen to my stuff and just tearing it to pieces. But still, having a second pair of eyes is fantastic, although I don't do that for everything that I write (although perhaps I should).

Yeah, it's good to have someone around like that. It's very hard to have the necessary distance from your own work, I think. WE all believe that everything we write is awesome...which just isn't true!

I've been lucky enough to have some really good editors as well. Also, I've found that working on the writing of others helps. Like, reading through something and going "I don't like this, why?" can be super helpful. Since some of the time it's just YKINMK, but some of the time you go "woah! Too much exposition!" or "the characters all sound the same!" or "Nothing is happening in the plot!" And then you at least sort of know to look for that stuff in your own writing.

Oh yeah, I think editing and critiquing other peoples stuff is a fantastic way of learning how to be a better writer. When I used to leave concrit as reviews for fics that I read, that was exactly why I'd do it. I mean, I was hoping that I was helping the other person, but really being able to sit down and say "Oh I thought this worked well. I think it was because..." or "Hmmm... that didn't work well at all because..." is a fantastic way to learn how to write. It's unfortunate that concrit and critique seems to be frowned upon so much in the DA fandom as a whole.

Yeah, I'm kind of saddened by it as well. As it is a great way to learn (on both sides). I mean, I still secretly do it (as it's kind of fun to think "how could I write this better?"), but sometimes I wonder if it might be helpful to the authors if I shared the thoughts...but then usually I don't, as I don't want an angry response!

Oh no, I'm a machine. I will bang things out like no body's business if necessary. And excluding the fubar I made of Necessary Words (all those bloody POV changes mid-scene) it makes sense.
And I'm an insecure person who always thinks my stuff is flippin' boring and that I don't need anything at all in the story.
For brainstorming I usually find someone willing for me to muse at them. Yes, I self muse, and listen to their reactions and note them in the back of my head as I go. And I'm usually writing at the same time I'm musing (being able to have a full on conversation whilst typing something else entirely at the same time seems to be my forte...)
I have been known to sit down and bang out 40,000 words plus in a day, and require very little editing. Like I said - a machine.
A few writer types I know tell me I must have hypographia as I'll super focus (yes this is a word) on something to the pseudo-exclusion of all else, and write until whatever is in my head has been satisfied. I've had to learn to force myself away from the writing though for vital things like food and sanity.

I (sometimes) have hypergraphia as well, and can do the same thing. That said, for me, it's never very good, and tends to require a lot of editing. Like, hypergraphia for me is great in that it gets the stuff on the page...but not so great in that I often need to edit it a *lot* before it's presentable. I'm envious that it works so well for you!

I think we all get a bit insecure at times. But I have found as I write that I slowly get better at going "OK, this is me being insecure" vs. "this is me being self-aware". (If that makes sense...) At least I think I am. I'm probably wrong half the time, which is why I love my betas!

I wish I could do that.... Frankly posting at all is an act of willpower.

Yeah, it really can be. I am in a mood right now where I want to tear 3/4 of what I've written off the web and burn it.

That said, I just tell myself "it's only fan fiction" and let it remain.

...although maybe I'll rip some of it up, anyway. ;)

:huggles:No tearing it up! Trust me, I've done it, and now I wish I hadn't. I like to go back and look at my oldest stuff and compare it to what I write now, and I find it is one of the few things that bolsters me. (Other than reviews of course but that goes without saying)
But I'm missing like I dunno...20 stories total that I can't go back and compare to, because in a fit of pique I deleted them from all the archives, and my fiancée of the time wound up formating the harddrive on the computer shortly there after.... which results in - lost stories.

Eh, I wouldn't remove them permanently. Just put them back in my archive where no one else can see them. ;)

It's a bit sad when my justification for not doing this is that some have a fair number of comments (OMG, fandom, what are you thinking?) and I figure that no matter how awful, in fandom *someone* will like them...

Tooooo true.

It really is. Although then I worry that someone who reads one thing I write will wander into my collection of stories and be like "OMG, WTF? This stuff stinks!" Which makes me think that I need to tear through everything I've written and remove the crappiest parts. I kind of want a warning like "Some of these fics are not very good. I have put a star by the ones that are. Please ignore the others."

I'm so glad to know I'm not the only one who does that. For a month or so straight I was posting a six thousand word chapter every day. Which isn't a TON, but that's in addition to doing about as much writing for school at the same time, and almost as much on my original fic.

But yeah, it does get troublesome. I'll be sitting writing away and, say, set dinner on fire. (well, that just happened ONCE), or forget I had started to fill a bath. or some other stupid thing I should be more than smart enough not to let happen. But when I get in that mood I just CAN'T STOP. Like, I've banged out chapters on my iphone in an email because my roommate was going to the laundromat and, not having a car, I had no choice but to go with him.

I actually did a brief paper on hypographia for a class this past semester- Dostoevsky had it. It's tied into other compulsive behavior disorders and addictions in a strange way. When he wasn't writing, which he would often do to the detriment of everything else in life, he was a compulsive gambler who lost almost every penny he had ever made. Some people think Hemingway might have had it, and when he wasn't writing (and even when he was on occasion) he was a raging alcoholic.
So... strange stuff. Since it isn't necessarily healthy to do ANYTHING to the point that you ignore everything else (which I admit I do), but it seems like for a lot of the known or strongly suspected cases, that's the least destructive path compared to their other compulsive behaviors.

I don't have any addictions excluding cigarettes (damn why did they have to ban proper cloves here in the States? :grumblesnazzlefrass: DON'T SMOKE KIDS!), and I don't have any compulsive disorders - what I do have is a thing with my brain wiring being all off. A sort of learning disability - but while I will go into the machine writing mode, I am capable of doing other things at the same time. Usually I'm on the phone or taking to someone face to face - and the conversation may, or may not have anything to do with what I'm writing, and there's several trains of thought plotting out things that don't have anything to do with the writing at all.
Dysgraphia/agraphia - it causes the body a hard time with fine motor skills (which is weird as I play several instruments...) but I can't hold a pen very well at all as an example. It's been hypotosized by one of my old psych profs (and my husband also believes this) that my brain went and made up for that mis-wiring in my head, giving me multitasking skills when it comes to thought processes. I'm not happy unless I'm doing a minimum of two things at once - if I don't, then I can't superfocus on the main item and get out whatever needs to come out.
While I'll definitely ignore all my body's needs in that state though, I don't seem to ignore other things that need to be done by and large....

I write like this!

Heh, I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one. Sometimes I just want to bang my head in frustration, lol.

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Rule 17 Writing Question

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