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peopleofthedas2012-02-14 03:47 pm
darkrose) wrote in peopleofthedas2012-02-14 03:47 pm
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The Elven Agenda: Elder Scrolls vs. Dragon Age
In my ongoing attempt to get into Skyrim, I was going through the Elder Scrolls Wiki, trying to understand the lore. It occurred to me that Tamriel and Thedas are mirrors of each other in some ways, particularly with regard to the elves.
In Dragon Age:
- Elves were conquered and enslaved by a nation based on the Roman Empire, run by magically-gifted humans.
- Elves rose up against their human oppressors led by a female prophet whose name began with "A".
- An elven leader of the slave revolt was given a place in religious canon, which was later removed.
- Elves are no longer immortal. After contact with humans, elven lifespan decreased; most live only as long as humans.
- Elves are considered second-class citizens at best, and many have internalized that.
In the Elder Scrolls:
- Magically-gifted elves enslaved humans.
- Slaves rose up against their elven oppressors, led by a female prophet whose name began with "A", from a culture based on the Roman Empire.
- A human leader of the slave revolt was added to the pantheon. Later, the elves forced the humans to ban his worship.
- Elves are no longer immortal, but still live much longer than humans.
- Elves still consider themselves superior to humans, and are trying to maintain their political power over them.
Reading this, some of the voices in my head spoke up. Mira wants to play "downtrodden human and elven oppressor" with Alistair. Julian thinks that having Fenris as his elven overlord sounds really hot. And Fenris...is disturbed by the idea of a world where elves are in power and are just as bad as the Magisters.
So what do you guys--and your characters--think? How would your versions of the DA characters react if they were transported to Tamriel?
In Dragon Age:
- Elves were conquered and enslaved by a nation based on the Roman Empire, run by magically-gifted humans.
- Elves rose up against their human oppressors led by a female prophet whose name began with "A".
- An elven leader of the slave revolt was given a place in religious canon, which was later removed.
- Elves are no longer immortal. After contact with humans, elven lifespan decreased; most live only as long as humans.
- Elves are considered second-class citizens at best, and many have internalized that.
In the Elder Scrolls:
- Magically-gifted elves enslaved humans.
- Slaves rose up against their elven oppressors, led by a female prophet whose name began with "A", from a culture based on the Roman Empire.
- A human leader of the slave revolt was added to the pantheon. Later, the elves forced the humans to ban his worship.
- Elves are no longer immortal, but still live much longer than humans.
- Elves still consider themselves superior to humans, and are trying to maintain their political power over them.
Reading this, some of the voices in my head spoke up. Mira wants to play "downtrodden human and elven oppressor" with Alistair. Julian thinks that having Fenris as his elven overlord sounds really hot. And Fenris...is disturbed by the idea of a world where elves are in power and are just as bad as the Magisters.
So what do you guys--and your characters--think? How would your versions of the DA characters react if they were transported to Tamriel?
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I'm playing a dark elven mage at the moment, having played a Nordic rogue up to level 53-ish. Anyway, I noticed that elves aren't exactly liked in Skyrim and in Windhelm they're really treated badly.
It took me awhile to warm up to Skyrim as the plot didn't reach out and grab me quite like DAO's, but man... join a guild of some sort like the Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood and it changed. It ate my brain. Certainly loads of lovely porn are clamoring to be written about Astrid and Arnbjorn, Brynjolf, and Ancona.
The one thing I was hoping to understand better is *why* the Thalmor are doing what they're doing. They seem to have a hidden agenda. There was a quest where you infiltrate a posh party and find some damning evidence, but it goes nowhere after that. :(
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I'm a long way from Windhelm with my Level 1 Breton mage. In Skyrim itself, elves aren't liked, but it's because they forced the Emperor to ban the worship of Talos. They seem to have a lot of power.
Fun Fact: I haven't met Elenwen, but I'm already inclined to dislike her. Her voice actress did Meredith.*
(* No, not really. If I can play a character with Vaughn's voice actor, I'm pretty much cool with anyone. Except Tim Curry, because dude, IT'S TIM CURRY! DON'T TRUST HIM, DAD!)
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The thing with the elves in Elder Scrolls is that they're not a unified group. Dunmer (dark elves) are the ones everyone in Windlhelm hates, and they're not even part of the Dominion- they HATE the other elves! (well, they hate -everyone-, to be more specific. They're kind of messed up)
They've actually intentionally isolated themselves from everyone, even the other elven races, for eras. They didn't worship the divines, they worshiped Daedra, and then the Tribunal. They're so disliked that in Oblivion you got a negative personality handicap with every interaction with a non-Dunmer when you play one.
I think they just make an easier target than the Dominion, since the Dunmer in Skyrim are refugees who fled a major semi-natural disaster. (it was described in the books set between Oblivion and Skyrim. I was super sad.). Plus, they shared a border with Skyrim and had a lot of small wars for territory over the years.
I <3 the Dunmer, for all their fucked up misanthropic ways. They are the best race to play if you like a mixed class character- perfectly balanced between magic and melee. (although I was happier when I got a mod to fix their damn eyebags)
I think it's because of how many hours I put into Morrowind. I still bust it out on occasion and get all happy-nostalgic. I suspect if I start a Skyrim fic it will be with my angry Dunmer who went native.
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Yup: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0319638/
She looks a little like Meredith might if she smiled in a non-"I'm going to eviscerate you now" kind of way.
This was the part in the wiki that got me thinking about mirror universe magisters:
"At one point the Ayleids controlled the entirety of the Imperial Province of Cyrodiil, and enslaved the Cyrodiilic and Nordic populations (which at that point were both part of the same prototypical race of men). During this time, the Ayleids made great strides in the arcane arts. The downfall of the Ayleid civilization was a combination of cultural hubris and fomenting revolution amongst their slaves. With the blessing of the Aedra, a slave named Alessia led a revolt that resulted in the inexorable destruction of the Ayleid civilization."
The analogy doesn't work as well as I first thought, but the idea of DA elves suddenly thrust into a world where pointed ears don't always mean second-class citizen is still kind of interesting.
although I was happier when I got a mod to fix their damn eyebags
Whoa...she looks cool! Does the racial penalty apply in Skyrim as well? I've been less than thrilled with the way my characters look; I'll have to go a-mod-hunting.
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I have this mod, with the optional "less ugly elven faces" add on. It softens the forehead ridges and gets rid of the eye bags.
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You need to first of all separate the races of elves (mer) out. They're not all the same, you can't just lump them under the one banner and say that they're all motivated the same way.
In ESV, it is the Thalmor who are not really liked, and they're a political group even if they are racially based - as in all Thalmor are altmer, but not all altmer are Thalmor).
Altmer have always considered themselves superior to the rest of the races, man and mer. The rest of the races have their own issues and each consider themselves superior to at least one other race (the poor orsimer don't stand a chance...). Racial tension has always been a pivotal Elder Scrolls standing point.
Alessia was not from a culture based on the Roman Empire. That culture developed much later, based on her actions. She wasn't really a prophet either... she prayed and received guidance from Akatosh and the Aedra and that enabled her to lead a revolt to free her people from under the Ayleids. And then went on to become the Empress, so not very prophet-ish.
Tiber Septim (Talos) was not a human leader of the slave revolt. The slave revolt happened in the First Era. Tiber Septim lived in the Second Era and ushered in the Third Era through his conquest of the majority of Tamriel. He was a leader, yes, just not of slaves.
I don't believe in Elder Scrolls lore that mer were ever immortal, though I could be wrong. Altmer have the longest lifespans, but that's generally only in the hundreds of years (excluding magical extensions) not the thousands of years. Bosmer a bit less than that, and Dunmer a bit less than that again. The longest living pure human strain tends to be around 80 plus.
Again, the political power thing comes down to just the Thalmor. The rest of the mer are not involved in that. And then again, if you look at it from a different point of view, the Thalmor were conquered (nearly wiped out) by the humans under Tiber Septim and the Summerset Isles were put under Imperial (human) governance, so they're just getting their own back... (personally I don't like either the Thalmor or the altmer)
As for having DA characters transported to Tamriel... depends on which era. Fourth Era, when Skyrim is set... not so much. Second or Third Era would be good though.
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[quote]Young female Dark Elves are well known for their promiscuity.[/quote]
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dunmer
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