ASUNDER DISCUSSION POST

[miri1984]

I will FULLY admit that I'm abusing my modly powers here, but I NEED TO DISCUSS STUFF. If you've read the novel, feel free to join discussion. If not SERIOUSLY SPOILERS. SO MANY SPOILERS. SPOILERS ALL OVER THE PLACE. DO NOT GO FORTH INTO THIS BLEAK NIGHT. I MEAN IT. I EVEN MADE A SPECIAL ASUNDER SPOILER TAG FOR IT.

DO YOU GET THAT?

SPOILERS.

Comments

[scarylady]

Right, I've finished it.

Ok

So...

Gaider needs a decent editor, one who will point out when he's (a) used entirely the wrong word, which means something other than what he clearly intended and (b) will stop him repeating the same descriptors within a single paragraph. The latter was driving me nuts.

His text is flat and a little cold. I feel he pushes you through the emotions his chars are feeling too fast, so that you aren't carried along with him. I found myself (as a writer) mentally inserting sentences to make his leaps of emotional logic hang together.

The idea that if Cole was a demon then Rhys was the murderer is utterly flawed. If Cole could kill the templars, with Leliana watching and Rhys not even present, then he could kill the others too, and very likely did.

I'm curious about what 'look into my eyes' means at the end. Is Cole merely freezing Lambert in place so he can be killed, or is it the start of a possession?

Unlike everyone else, I liked Rhys. He had a measured maturity I found appealing and that I could relate to. Adrian needed a slap, regularly and often. I didn't feel Evangeline's turnaround happened too easily, it was clear from the beginning that the values she held were utterly different from those of the Seeker. In normal circumstances she would have remained a Templar, but the plot pushed her into action.

Fiona's presence didn't make a scrap of sense to me. A former Warden, of Maric and Loghain's generation, with not a scrap of corruption apparent? I know some fanfic writers have posited the theory that she escaped the Taint, but I'm surprised to see Gaider go that route without any explanation.

[miri1984]

I thought that was covered in the Calling? She does actually say at some point that the combination of the drug they're given and her pregnancy means her taint is gone. I don't buy it as a GOOD explanation, but the fact that she's not tainted any more is established canon.

I agree about his text, and maker knows I seriously wanted to punch Adrian. I've re-read the end bits and it seems that Cole WAS the murderer, not Rhys (it's heavily implied when he's there with Lambert), but having Rhys feel like he's some how responsible smells like a plot point? Something to make him more angsty, because you know, for a Gaider character he's way too stable.

[scarylady]

It's ages since I read The Calling (and I don't consider it worth a re-read) so I'll have to take your word for that. As I remember, the unnaturally accelerated (plot) taint was gone, but I thought that the idea that this made her immune to the normal Calling of a Warden was fanon, not canon.

[miri1984]

*hunts up her copy of The Calling, because of OCD reasons I MUST KNOW NOW!!*

Ok, this is from the end of the Calling:

"Well, I guess I like boring things." He grinned at her. "But I'd rather hear about you. The taint... when you left, you said..."
"It's gone," she said flatly. "The mages at Weisshaput weren't sure if it was because the First Enchanter's brooch sped things up artificially or... at any rate, all the corruption vanished. They don't think it's going to come back, either. There was test after test, but they think I may be the first Grey Warden that never has to endure the Calling again."

[scarylady]

Oh, fair enough. I withdraw that part of my criticism then :)

[miri1984]

:D Doesn't make the rest any less wrong.

I must admit I don't go into these books as much else other than a vehicle for imparting lore. I'm not a massive fan of his style, and I think he's far better at writing in-game dialogue and plot than he is at an actual story.

It's just nice to have stuff put down in stone. The part about the phylactery chamber pretty much exploded my mind. No mage in Thedas has a phylactery any more! Also little bits about what mages are capable of doing with spirits, more concrete things about demons, hints at what it actually FEELS like to be tranquil - these are all things that will make my fanfic writing and RP-ing a lot easier.

Sure the story was quite interesting, but I suppose I was mostly interested in it because I wanted to KNOW THINGS and was tired of just guessing them or glossing over them for fic :D.

[scarylady]

No mage in ORLAIS has a phylactery any more. Ferelden ones were sent to Denerim, not Val Royeaux, right?

[zute]

I got the feeling they had a couple of different places in Ferelden. Let's see, in the mage origin you find Jowan's in the tower but they're going to send it to Denerim, IIRC.

Then Anders thinks his is in Amaranthine for some reason.

I figured the basement of the Chantry in one of my fics... put pigs blood in it. Hee hee!

I always wondered how good their filing systems were. I bet they lose track of lots of them!

[scarylady]

Nah, they'd leave it to the Tranquil; I bet they have the best filing systems.

However, seeing as the Tranquil apparently have Opinions that has its own consequences, right?

[amhran_comhrac]

I think that will have SERIOUS, MAJOR conciquences. Although it also flies in the face of what we saw in game. (Well, more in Origins- the tranquil who just stood around while the tower was being ripped apart around them aren't being pragmatic, they're being utterly mindless).

That they can have an opinion, and apparently at least one has decided going against the templars was the pragmatic and correct choice, is likely to have major conciquences.

[miri1984]

In Origins, Owain survives, and the other mages who are captured by demons leave the room they were in as soon as you save them (if you manage to save them in time). I wouldn't be surprised if Owain was the one of the most capable, given he was in charge of the stock room, and it's possible he hid or actually did something to ensure that.

I mean being made tranquil doesn't make you stupid either, but by that token there would be some tranquil who were more intelligent than others, right?

[amhran_comhrac]

The thought I had, specifically, were the tranquil in the room with three shield-carrying statues who just say “thank you. That was an uncomfortable experience” after you kill all the demons, but were basically standing around motionless beforehand. Wouldn’t the logical thing to do to run or hide or really, anything but stand around?

[miri1984]

Aren't they thralled before that? Actually, they turn into shades if you don't save them in time... which raises another point... WHY DO THEY TURN INTO SHADES???

[amhran_comhrac]

They might be thralled, come to think of it.
But then... HOW COULD THAT HAPPEN IF THE WHOLE POINT OF MAKING THEM TRANQUIL IS TO PREVENT THAT FROM HAPPENING?
gah!
GAH!!

[miri1984]

David Gaider is messing with our heads again. I mean, I can see Tranquil being thralled, but turning into shades seems to be a thing that should not happen.

[amhran_comhrac]

Yes, exactly. since that would appear to be a form of possession- and making sure they can't get possessed is the whole reason for giving them the lyrium lobotomy!

[zute]

My memory is close to what you're saying. Somehow in the Calling she got rid of the taint. Apparently she also acquired substantial awesomeness to become the grand enchanter.