How big is a division?

[zute]

I apologize for another lame-ass question, but in the story I'm writing now this actually has relevance. It's the difference between paranoia and reasonable concern.

When you rescue Riordan he tells you that Loghain had turned away 200 Grey Wardens and two dozen divisions of cavalry.  When I looked up division sizes I got utterly enormous numbers like 10,000 for single light infantry division, in the modern army. I'm sure that must be vastly larger than in middle ages terms.

Does anyone have a feel for how many actually people that would be? 

My thanks!

Zute

Comments

[prisoner_24601]

In the context of the world that Bioware created however, the fact that the Warden makes the call is justified by everything you do in the game that leads up to that moment and you having the reputation that makes your opinion carry weight. That's kind of the whole point. If you're going to dismiss that as just game mechanics, then the entire story and setting and world collapse because all of it is leading up to the story that Gaider and Co. want to tell.

My point is basically this - the fact that the warden gets to make that decision at the landsmeet makes no sense in the context and history that's presented in the rest of the game by DG and co. - unless you're playing a human noble. The game is totally inconsisent within itself - bascially because they are trying to shoehorn six different origins down one path that really only makes sense for one origin.

I mean, in the context of the game city elves are hated, dalish elves are distrusted, mages are feared and no one who is a human seems to care about dwarves or their opinions. But all of the sudden, everyone gives a shit about what that character's opinion is because they are a grey warden and can kick Loghain's ass? From most of what we see, most people are entirely indifferent to the grey wardens.

I don't buy that somehow there's this great tradition in Ferelden of the biggest asskicker in a duel gets to pick the king. This is not consistant with what we see in the books about how Maric became king. It's a game mechanic and not particularly evidence of anything. Don't get me wrong, I get trying to figure out how to work this game mechanic into the story in a way that makes sense, but this doesn't make sense to me when viewed with the attitudes, dialogue, history and context of everything else presented.

[darkrose]

But all of the sudden, everyone gives a shit about what that character's opinion is because they are a grey warden and can kick Loghain's ass? From most of what we see, most people are entirely indifferent to the grey wardens.

Sure, they were--right up until the point when Lothering and most of Southern Ferelden were obliterated by the darkspawn. The nobles are probably pissing their pants at this point, and If Maeferath came back from the dead and said, "I'll save you from the Blight," they'd consider it. The one thing people do know is that Grey Wardens defeat Blights. They'll worry about what comes later...later.

That, to me, is why Awakening was so disappointing, and why I feel like there's so much room for fanfic. I want to find out what happens 2, 5, 10 years down the line when Alistair and Queen Cousland still haven't produced an heir. I want to see the backlash to the crown giving the mages more freedom. Eventually, I want to write about the political impact of the King's mistress and closest advisor being an elf. But during the Landsmeet, it's a crisis, and people are panicked, and not thinking about the long-term consequences.

I don't buy that somehow there's this great tradition in Ferelden of the biggest asskicker in a duel gets to pick the king. This is not consistant with what we see in the books about how Maric became king.

Maric's primary qualification to rule was that he was Moira's son. He shored that up by not getting killed, and by being able to intimidate the opposition--including the Bannorn--in some cases by relieving them of their heads. By all accounts, he wasn't a particularly good ruler for most of his reign, but he's remembered for being an effective leader of the rebellion and thus, "Maric the Savior". Going back even further, the Theirin line began when Calenhad busted enough heads for the nobility to fall in line behind him.

No, if the devs were truly consistent, only the Cousland would be able to get away with playing kingmaker. But in that case, you'd also have to pretty much rewrite the game, because why would the dwarves allow an outsider, or a casteless, or a kinslayer to crown their next king? Why would the Dalish even speak to non-elves? If you apply that level of logic, the whole game falls apart, so I think you have to accept certain improbabilities, like a slender 5' tall woman dual-wielding Maric's Sword and Starfang, or like the human nobles of Ferelden letting a non-human noble hero decide the fate of the country.

[prisoner_24601]

Sure, they were--right up until the point when Lothering and most of Southern Ferelden were obliterated by the darkspawn. The nobles are probably pissing their pants at this point, and If Maeferath came back from the dead and said, "I'll save you from the Blight," they'd consider it. The one thing people do know is that Grey Wardens defeat Blights. They'll worry about what comes later...later.

Ah this is a great point - and one I totally hadn't considered. This I buy as a reason for why they suddenly are starting to listen to a warden's opinion. It makes a lot of sense to me, because it fits the very fickle and self preservation side of human nature quite well.

That, to me, is why Awakening was so disappointing, and why I feel like there's so much room for fanfic. I want to find out what happens 2, 5, 10 years down the line when Alistair and Queen Cousland still haven't produced an heir. I want to see the backlash to the crown giving the mages more freedom. Eventually, I want to write about the political impact of the King's mistress and closest advisor being an elf. But during the Landsmeet, it's a crisis, and people are panicked, and not thinking about the long-term consequences.

You and me both. I would absolutely love to see the long term fallout of these rushed decisions. And if you write the story of the fallout about the King's closest advisor being an elf, sign me the hell up because I would love to read this fic.

And you are right that the game, by it's very design, requires a suspension of disbelief. I do get why people are trying to make these game mechanics fit into the context of the game - I just think that some make more sense than others. Awarding the decision to the biggest asskicker doesn't seem like a plausable explination to me given the context of everything else. People freaking out and giving more weight to the warden's opinion than maybe they should because they're panicked - yes this works for me.

[niniane]

I've personally always been rather curious of the fall out of a Warden who made terrible decisions and/or solved things just by killing people.

I find it very, very strange that you can go the brawl route for the Landsmeet and *still* choose who the king is (or queen, or marry the king, or marry the queen, or make Alistair and Anora marry). I can only imagine that once everything blows over that people are all like "eh...no, you only won because we were afraid you would kill everyone" especially if the Warden is still in a position of authority in the government (Chancellor/lover of Alistair, wife of Alistair, husband of Anora, chancellor in Anora's government but fighting with her).