How big is a division?

[zute]

I apologize for another lame-ass question, but in the story I'm writing now this actually has relevance. It's the difference between paranoia and reasonable concern.

When you rescue Riordan he tells you that Loghain had turned away 200 Grey Wardens and two dozen divisions of cavalry.  When I looked up division sizes I got utterly enormous numbers like 10,000 for single light infantry division, in the modern army. I'm sure that must be vastly larger than in middle ages terms.

Does anyone have a feel for how many actually people that would be? 

My thanks!

Zute

Comments

[zute]

You are right, complex characters are much more interesting, that's why I'm against 'Cailan is a moron' and 'Orlais is totally going to invade the promised lands of Ferelden just because'.

I don't think any of us are arguing that Orlais is going to invade, obviously they didn't which we know in hindsight. What the debate is about is whether or not that was a reasonable concern for Loghain to have.

Why would Loghain's actions keep Orlais from doing what he is afraid they would do?
Because he kept out four Legions, or 24 divisions, of Orlesian troops/chevaliers or whatever.

Why does he make himself regent when his daughter, widow of the late king, is the most likely candidate to be promoted by the Landsmeet to become the new ruler? This would have prevented civil war and Anora could have continued the diplomatic relations with Orlais.

To protect his daughter from all the fairly ruthless stuff he is going to do. He doesn't want her associated with stuff like poisoning Eamon, selling elves and so on. He realizes there's a price to pay for these actions and I think he wants to be the one to pay it, not have his daughter involved.

Why does Orlais stop at the border if they simply want to take over Ferelden?
Lots of possible reasons. They didn't want to fight through the small pass and loose lots of guys in the process, or they weren't actually interested in invading. None of us are saying Loghain was correct, that Orlais was interested in invading, we're just saying Loghain wasn't irrational in assuming that was a possibility (or just not leaving the country after the Blight was squashed).

Why does Loghain abandon the south?
Why did he retreat from Ostagar you mean?
Possible reasons (confirmed by DG)
1) The beacon was lit late, too late for the plan to work.
2) He promised Maric he'd never risk an entire army to save one man (Cailan). If they were overwhelmed, which is entirely possible since everyone seemed intent on underestimating the horde, then retreating was a rational choice versus losing the entire military forces of Ferelden.

Why does he fight a civil war when Orlais and a Blight pose a threat?
I didn't realize it was optional. What were his choices instead? Just let the Banns run riot and refuse to provide the troops necessary to rebuild the army? That seems like it would rather undermine their political structure. There's a certain amount of alpha-wolfiness necessary to being a leader in this sort of political structure. They had a stick in one hand and a carrot in the other. If the carrot doesn't work, Loghain gonna whoop yo ass, or stick the carrot up it. :D

Loghain's judgment was faulty, absolutely, but he wasn't just some crazy-ass villain without reasonable motivations for most of what he did. That's what makes him interesting. Is he ruthless? Yes. Does he do awful things? Yes. Was he doing it for Ferelden? Yes.

My one complaint is that I actually think the slavery business with the elves was a bit out-of-character, but I didn't write the story.

This is probably why Loghain was voted as one of the best villains in some gamer magazine recently. He's complicated!

[niniane]

In addition to the point Why does he fight a civil war when Orlais and a Blight pose a threat?

If you talk to Eamon, he's pretty clear on that Loghain is the best/most expected person for the job (other than Alistair, of course). Arguably, he's not fighting a civil war...it's Eamon, Teagan, the Grey Wardens, etc. who are. So he's got a choice to either let all sides pull away from each other (probably dooming the country to a Blight - at least Eamon seems to think so), or force them to all work along.

It's somewhat analogous to Lincoln's decisions in the Civil War (although arguably much less so, as Lincoln may have been acting unconstitutionally, didn't have a Blight as a threat, etc.)

[klarabella]

"Why does Loghain abandon the south?"
Why did he retreat from Ostagar you mean?
No, I mean why does he abandon the south, take his armies to Denerim (to declare himself regent), summon even the Banns and Arls loyal to him (like the Bann of Lothering), leaving the villages and farms completely defenseless.

"Why does he fight a civil war when Orlais and a Blight pose a threat?"
I didn't realize it was optional. What were his choices instead? Just let the Banns run riot...
Of course, it was optional. The moment he noticed the Bannorn wouldn't follow him, he could have relented and given over to Anora. He could have taken HIS troops to guard the Orlesians at the border and let the Bannorn and Redcliffe turn their troops south to defend Ferelden against the Blight.

The battlefields of the civil war were located in the Bannorn, so obviously Loghain went there to force them into submission, not the other way round. They simply didn't accept his authority (with good reason, he didn't have legal authority to begin with) and refused to follow him.

"Why does Orlais stop at the border if they simply want to take over Ferelden?"
Lots of possible reasons. They didn't want to fight through the small pass...
Fight against whom? Do you think there was an army keeping them in check? What army? What losses?

"Why would Loghain's actions keep Orlais from doing what he is afraid they would do?"
Because he kept out four Legions, or 24 divisions, of Orlesian troops/chevaliers or whatever.
How did he keep them out? He refused to let them in, they were turned back at the border. That can be accomplished by a messenger and a handful of guards.

I don't think any of us are arguing that Orlais is going to invade, obviously they didn't which we know in hindsight. What the debate is about is whether or not that was a reasonable concern for Loghain to have.
If they were never going to invade (obviously), what did Loghain base his assumptions on? What evidence did he have? I just can't get it into my head, Orlais obviously never planned to invade, what kind of information could Loghain have to make him believe otherwise, other then seeing ghosts? I really don't see any reasons other than his hatred.