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peopleofthedas2010-12-02 11:58 am
varelishawt) wrote in peopleofthedas2010-12-02 11:58 am
Realism, differences between medieval and modern body types
So, inspired by the thread about realism in pr0n, I was looking at the differences in body type, medieval versus modern, and of course, since we write smut, these things should perhaps be mentioned and explored. I was reading about the discovery of skeletons, specifically those of longbowmen, and was wondering if anyone else has thought about it.
Obviously, men and women who wear full plate would be quite muscular, and archers like Nathaniel, who pull bows that are six feet long, day in and day out, would have a much thicker left arm, capable of bracing a bow that has a three-hundred-pound pull. Those who favor speed over brute strength would still be muscular, I think, but in a different way from the plate wearers. This isn't reflected in the game models, sadly, but maybe it should in our smut.
Obviously, men and women who wear full plate would be quite muscular, and archers like Nathaniel, who pull bows that are six feet long, day in and day out, would have a much thicker left arm, capable of bracing a bow that has a three-hundred-pound pull. Those who favor speed over brute strength would still be muscular, I think, but in a different way from the plate wearers. This isn't reflected in the game models, sadly, but maybe it should in our smut.
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In general, people in medieval-tech societies are smaller than modern folks. You also may see the effects of childhood malnutrition on some people--I imagine that rickets is pretty epidemic in the alienages.
Archers in general are going to have pretty spectacular upper-body development--arms, hands, shoulders, upper back muscles. (And they tend to injure joints, especially shoulders and elbows.) It's a pretty physically demanding profession. Crossbowmen, depending on the type of crossbow, may not need to have all of that upper-body strength, since the point of the crossbow is to replace much of the force that the archer applies to their bow with mechanical force.
Heavy armor, if it's reasonably well-made, isn't nearly as heavy as it looks. Heavy armor is comparable in weight to a modern full combat kit, about 20-40 pounds. The massive armor we see in DA:O may be a bit more, probably topping out at 50-60 pounds. Not inconsiderable, but doable without looking like a linebacker. (And I'm going to venture to guess that dragonbone armor is probably quite light and reasonably comfortable to wear.)
Probably what determines just how muscular a swordfighter is going to be is their fighting style. Sword and board will tend to emphasize endurance rather than brute strength, while people wielding two-handers and hammers likely tend to look like blacksmiths, because a lot of their effectiveness is going to come from their ability to get through armor.
(Even enormous swords aren't *that* heavy, but those hammers are probably 10-20 pounds. So someone who prefers a hammer might have heavier muscle development in their arms and shoulders.)
Folks who double-wield (ignoring the COMPLETE impracticality of wielding two longswords, no matter what game mechanics say) are going to rely more on quickness and flexibility to keep them out of the way of enemy blades. (And I never noticed before I played on the PC that dual-wielders use their off-hand blade to deflect arrows and crossbow bolts! That is awesome.) They may look more like acrobats rather than weightlifters, but that's probably less to do with how they fight and train and more to do with the kind of person who would gravitate towards double-wielding.
Mages are probably going to vary greatly in body type--but Circle mages who've been there since childhood are going to have nice calves and thighs from all of the stair-climbing they do. :)
Okay, I'm rambling, and I should stop.
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I think all plate wearers will tend to be muscular, because even if one can wear forty-five pounds of plate armor (the number given on Wikipedia for a suit of well-tempered steel), you need to be able to fight for a considerably long time wearing it. Not to mention marching in it, or traveling any distance in it. Endurance is god for any soldier, it doesn't matter if they're shield users or not.
As for crossbows, I think it depends on what the cocking mechanism is. If using stirrups, there needs to be some strength involved, but not if using a cranequin. Crossbowmen also carried pavises, so they couldn't be weaklings, either.
According to the study of the possible longbowmen skeletons on the Mary Rose, their left arms were considerably thicker, had bone spurs, and there was a special bone separated from their shoulder.
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It was a huge pain in the ass.
I don't need that level of realism in my fantasy universe. There are certain things that genre convention allows me to handwave without going into detail. Yes, it takes a long time to get out of full plate, and it's difficult (though not impossible) to do by yourself. For me, though, detailing that process is time that could be spent writing a scorching sex scene, or dialogue that tells the reader something about the character.
I think most writers do acknowledge some differences in body type. Alistair is always described as being a big guy, which he'd have to be. Zev, on the other hand, is thin and light and relies on speed rather than brute force. If anything, I think there's a certain amount of overkill in the way elves are often described as being almost child-sized in fic when compared to humans.
As far as Nathaniel....let's just say that I'm rarely interested in the size of his forearms. I actually love the fact that all of the guys in DA fic seem to be particularly blessed by the Maker. Again, genre convention works for me.
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Full plate armour would render a shield useless. It was surprisingly light and offered enough freedom for movement, but it was a hygienic disaster (no, you didn't take the thing off when you needed to pee or worse) and the ventilation was pretty bad. It would have to be crafted specifically for you. Mail armour, while more difficult to wear because its weight rested on your shoulders only, is pretty much one-size-fits-all. Ventilation is better and it's self-cleaning.
Unlike pictured in Origins, where you quite successfully hack away with whatever weapon you favour at whoever comes close, a sword or a dagger, even an axe would not pierce through armour that easily, if at all. You would need a very pointy two-hander or a spear to get through and injure someone.
If you want realism, get rid of the various armour types, hand them a sword or an axe, a dagger (only for surprise attacks if the enemy is unaware or they've lost their primary weapon) and scrap the warrior/rogue distinction. Sword combat is a matter of technique and no one in their right mind would probably engage in a fight against someone who is wiedling a longsword/greatsword/bastardsword/claymore, an axe or a shortsword and a shield with a dagger, simply relying on how incredibly quick they are.
If you have an idea about how length of your arms could be more important than the size of your muscles, you might have an idea how Zevran or Alistair look like. Alistair could be a tall human, a bit more athletic than the average farmer or noble. With Zevran it depends on how you translate the rogue/assassin gameplay thing: Is he a fighter and can he handle a sword? Then he would still be smaller as Alistair and due to his lack of training probably probably at a disadvantage. Or is he merely someone who sneaks up on his enemies and slits their throats while they are unprepared and unprotected, then he doesn't even have to be athletic. He has probably strong legs and can run fast. ;-)
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thank you for your time
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OK, I'll be back in my tent for a while....
...you are a wicked, wicked person. (Off to write more Nathaniel porn...)
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It's also interesting to me that most medievals were fairly short...but that there were a reasonable number in certain eras who were quite tall. (I think that the Myceneans were actually slightly taller than most modern people. Think on the order of taller than the average American, but shorter than the average Dutch.) They were also fairly lithe. So *theoretically* you could let them be quite a bit taller and thinner than Medievals, although that's probably the most accurate representation.
Still, as a giant, I like the idea of them being tall, so am totally thinking of them as ancient Celts/Myceneans rather than as people in Medieval Europe.
Also, let me echo that one can carry a *massive* amount of weight of trained to do it properly. One of my brothers used to *fume* at D&D tables for how little they let his PC carry. He'd carried, I guess, about 20% more *and* gone longer distances (in a day) than allowed even at max strength. Admittedly, he's a tough guy (unlike me...I have of strength of like 3)...but he's not super built looking, either. Just slightly above average in height and average weight. So you can be fairly normal looking and still haul stuff around like an ox.
That said, you'd probably find other weird stuff, too. Like Nate probably has one arm that's a lot more built up than the other (which I'm going to completely and totally ignore in ffic as I like symmetrical men! Yummy!). Also, most families would be bigger, most characters would probably look like hags by 30 due to constant sun exposure (maybe not if they wore hats all the time?), and most women would be deformed from constant child birth.
I'm totally ignoring realism here. I want my pretty people, realistic or no.
...although I do sort of want to see a pregnant elf, just in that I find it kind of humorous to observe 5' tall women who weigh 90 lbs and then get pregnant and look like a little doll with a massive balloon strapped to their bellies. Yes, I know, I'm mean. But there is something kind of entertaining about that image, all the same.
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I agree that what we see in DA is unrealistic, though, but I do think there were 'dirty fighters', looked down on because they use poison and dishonorable tactics, like the suppa of Japan.
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I just wanted to say, the body type depends on how you translate the combat, armour, weapons, abilities, classes from gameplay to writing.
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It was a huge pain in the ass.
I don't need that level of realism in my fantasy universe.
Okay, yeah, that sounds annoying. I much prefer some of the quirky nods to realism my GM included.
For instance, when my character decided to hook up with another character, he made us roll d-100 for an "O" check. I rolled 85, he rolled 86, so not only were we both pretty good, we were damn near simultaneous.
I actually love the fact that all of the guys in DA fic seem to be particularly blessed by the Maker.
Me too. *happy sigh*
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Anyway, I prefer to have plenty of fantasy in my fantasy. Maybe some odd detail would be fun but I think one could go crazy striving for too much realism in a fantasy world.
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I really do try and make the body types different - Nathaniel is going to be different from Duncan, who is going to be somewhat different from Alistair or Sten. As for mages... most of them are in shape enough to be okay climbing the stairs, but they're not going to be ripped. I make them squishy when I don't thin them out on the road :D
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